Lawyer Marketing: How to Get More Clients
Direct Answer: Professional service providers grow faster when they combine strong local visibility, clear positioning, consistent marketing, and streamlined technology systems.
Why Starting a Professional Practice Feels Overwhelming
Starting a new professional service practice often feels like trying to build an airplane while flying it.
Many professionals are excellent at their craft but struggle with:
Marketing
Visibility
Differentiation
Technology
Client acquisition
According to Joel Miller, building a successful practice requires more than expertise alone.
It requires creating a strong digital and operational foundation that helps potential clients find you, trust you, and choose you.
Step 1: Build a Strong Web Presence
Your Website Is Your Digital First Impression
Today, potential clients usually research you online before contacting you.
Without a professional website, many people may assume your business is either outdated or not established.
A strong professional service website should:
Clearly explain your services
Address client pain points
Include contact information
Build trust quickly
Load fast on mobile devices
Include SEO-optimized content
This is especially important for:
Law firm marketing
Chiropractor marketing
Therapist SEO
Consultant branding
Healthcare practices
Why SEO Still Matters
Modern SEO is not just about keywords.
It is also about:
Trust
Relevance
Helpful content
AI-search visibility
Local authority
Professional websites that consistently publish educational content often perform better in:
Google search
AI-generated search results
Local map listings
Step 2: Optimize Your Local Presence
Mapping Services Drive Local Clients
Most people searching for local professional services use maps and local search tools.
That means your Google Business Profile matters enormously.
An optimized local profile should include:
Correct contact information
Professional photos
Updated hours
Client reviews
Service descriptions
Consistent posting activity
Many businesses lose clients simply because their local information is incomplete or outdated.
Step 3: Define What Makes You Different
Why Your USP Matters
One of the biggest mistakes professionals make is sounding exactly like everyone else.
Generic messaging creates confusion.
A strong Unique Selling Proposition (USP) explains:
Who you help
What problems you solve
Why your approach is different
Why clients should trust you
For example:
A chiropractor specializing in pregnancy care
A law firm focused on business owners
A therapist specializing in OCD treatment
Specificity builds trust faster than broad messaging.
Step 4: Stop Relying Only on Referrals
Visibility Must Be Consistent
Referrals are valuable, but relying entirely on them creates instability.
Strong practices combine referrals with ongoing visibility strategies such as:
Blog articles
FAQ content
Social media posts
Community involvement
Video marketing
Educational content
Platforms like LinkedIn and YouTube help professionals stay visible and build credibility over time.
The professionals who consistently educate their audience usually become the trusted authority in their niche.
Step 5: Use Technology to Improve Efficiency
Smart Systems Reduce Stress and Improve Growth
Technology can dramatically improve both client experience and operational efficiency.
Helpful tools may include:
Online scheduling
CRM systems
Automated follow-ups
Electronic records
Intake systems
AI-assisted content creation
The goal is not replacing human connection.
The goal is reducing administrative friction so professionals can focus more on serving clients.
The Most Successful Practices Build Trust Repeatedly
Professional service growth is rarely about one marketing tactic.
It usually comes from consistently building:
Visibility
Trust
Clarity
Reputation
Responsiveness
Authority
Potential clients are constantly asking:
Can this professional help me?
Do they understand my situation?
Do I trust them?
Do they appear credible?
The practices that answer those questions clearly are the ones most likely to grow.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is the first step in building a professional service practice?
Creating a professional website and local online presence is usually the first critical step.
Why is local SEO important for service providers?
Local SEO helps businesses appear in nearby searches, map listings, and AI-generated local recommendations.
How can professionals differentiate themselves online?
Focus on a clear niche, specific client problems, and consistent educational content that demonstrates expertise.
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Andrew Colsky (00:12)
Welcome to be picked the podcast for professional service providers where we help you learn how to build and grow your business I'm your host Andrew Colsky and today we are talking with Joel Miller. He is the cone co-owner of the sky floor and Joel, welcome to the show
Joel Miller (00:32)
Thank you so much for having me.
Andrew Colsky (00:34)
Yeah we're glad to have you here and looking forward to a good conversation. Let's start off with this. So you've been working in this industry of helping people to build and grow their businesses. You understand strategic positioning and things like that. So so let's start kind of from scratch. Let's say that we have someone who is starting a new professional service practice. Maybe they're a
Chiropractor, how about that? We'll pick that and they are Setting up their first office. Hmm. They don't have any clients yet. They got to start from the
ground floor But they want to do it right and so they come to you and they say Joel, what do I do? Where do I start? What's your response?
Joel Miller (01:25)
Well, that is a, that's good. can be quite a daunting task, right? I feel for that person. And it's funny that you picked a chiropractor because just, I don't know what it was three or four years ago. It was actually a friend up here who was going into start their chiropractic business. So I was faced with this exact question. What do I do first? And, the first two things that we did for them was one set up a website. I mean, I think like it might depend on the area you're in, but
We're in an era still where having that web presence is a signal of just that you care and you exist. if you're like, I guess maybe skewing on elder millennial, if you're like me and probably younger, especially, all things are equal between two businesses and one has a website that actually presents who they are, I'm going there probably, unless they have just the worst reviews ever.
I think it's absolutely still a must to have a web presence. And it's actually becoming more of a must too, because if you wanna show up in AI search results, if you wanna show up in Google's AI overview, if you wanna show up in a chat GPT prompt, what's the best chiropractor in Charlevoix, Michigan, that's where I live, then you need to have the website to even tell them where to go. They're not gonna know you're there. So I think that's foundation number one.
And then two, for something like that, a chiropractor is a location-based business. So people have to be able to get to you. And so how do they know that you're there? You've got to be on the mapping services. I mean, this is 101 stuff, right? But it's amazing how often we run across businesses that haven't taken the time to claim themselves on Google Maps, on the Apple Maps systems, say who they are, what the information is, make sure it's all correct. And then they wonder why no one can find them. Well.
This is the number one spot people go to to something generally and then also just to find how to get to you specifically. Even if they know you exist, you gotta be present there.
Andrew Colsky (03:31)
Right, right. Well, yeah, I mean, that's obviously, you know, when I say obviously, I mean, in this conversation, it's obviously important that we have this. But for someone who has spent their time learning their trade, whether it be chiropractor, whether it be lawyer, whether it be whatever professional service it may be, they spend a lot of time in school.
They spend a lot of time on the actual material because they've got hard tests they have to pass and difficult concepts they have to learn. And they're concerned about doing a good job in their profession. And most likely, I'm not aware of any professional school that gives any sort of information about marketing or building your practice.
Joel Miller (04:14)
Sure, right. And I actually like, I don't want to interrupt you, but I just kind of have to give myself a slap on the wrist actually, because I just went to the nuts and bolts and those things are important. But like the real, real number one, if you get the chance to start from scratch, if you're listening to this and you're thinking about starting something,
you get to start where a lot of people don't, they can't now if they're, let's say I like to call it accidentally successful. They just did some of the nuts and bolts stuff and it just worked.
And now it's getting into there's a more competitive environment or just the world is shifting around or things like technology are changing. And they never took the time to define what makes them different from anyone else you could go to. I if you can't, mean, it's so broad and we could drill into like the chiropractic example, but if you can't say there's a clear and defined reason why someone choosing between me and the 50 other chiropractors in a major metro area.
you have nothing to tell, you have no story to tell, nothing to really pitch. It's just gonna be another one in the list of maps results. So I would say I gotta roll back a little bit and go figure that out first. And there's a lot of ways to slice that to position yourself, but you gotta start there if you have the chance.
Andrew Colsky (05:34)
Yeah, and that's a great point. And as we're talking about it, and I just kind of pulled chiropractor as one professional service
Joel Miller (05:43)
Yeah.
Andrew Colsky (05:44)
and I'm thinking about it for myself. Like if I were the chiropractor, how am I going to position myself? I sort of been there, I guess. But in terms of chiropractic for me, because I'm not a chiropractor, because I don't know chiropractic practices very well.
I kind of think of all chiropractors as the same. They all do the same thing.
Joel Miller (06:05)
Right?
Andrew Colsky (06:06)
They all have the same tools. But then I'm thinking to myself, even if I'm correct, there's still got to be a way to differentiate yourself. And then I think to myself, okay, well, what about someone who works, you know, or puts positions themselves as exclusively working on lower back issues or issues for elderly or issues for kids or what? There's always a way.
doesn't mean that's the only thing you do, but you
Joel Miller (06:32)
Yes.
Andrew Colsky (06:32)
do have to differentiate yourself.
Joel Miller (06:34)
Yeah, if you aim at something, I always say it doesn't matter that sometimes people will miss you, right? Like, so if you pick your your your marketplace and you say, I'm the chiropractor who serves pregnant women and I do that because it helps them be more comfortable during pregnancy. It results. mean, I'm making this up, but let's just say it results in better outcomes during labor. And we have.
some reason to believe that the child is happy you're growing up, probably made up. But the point is, you hone in on that. Well, people are still gonna find out about you and talk about you. The fact is you actually have a bigger chance of showing up to your audience when you pick it. But that means people find out about you. The problem you have today is no one knows you exist. So making it more specific means some people will know you exist. And when some people do and have a good experience, other people will hear about you too. And so you have that target.
You're aiming at that, but people will miss and get off the bullseye and they're still gonna become clients. Yeah, yeah.
Andrew Colsky (07:36)
Right. Right.
So so let's take that sort of to the next step. So so you figure out sort of your little niche that you want to focus on.
And now what do you do with that. Is it a matter of just put those words on your website. You're golden. Or what do you do with it.
Joel Miller (07:56)
Yeah, you have to have them on your website. always say, because that's kind of like this idea of SEO or search engine optimization. And now we have GEO, which is generative AI engine optimization. And you have to have those things on your website. I like to...
make it the analogy that it's kind of like way point way signs for houses and roads right like you have to have your road sign that so people know how to get to you you have to have the house numbers so when they're driving down the street they're like that's their house so to me that's the words on the website that's the technical SEO stuff that doesn't mean people care about it though right like just because i have a street and i have house numbers people don't come to my house unless they're invited or they you know so
So you have to get that part right. And so, yes, put the technical stuff up, have the way signs up, but then figure out how to get people to care that you exist and to show up. But the beautiful thing about defining an audience is that now you at least get some borders around that. Because if you're just like, I help everyone with backs, that's gonna be 99.9 % of everywhere you are.
Andrew Colsky (09:06)
Yep.
Joel Miller (09:08)
And, or probably 100, but you know, maybe there's someone who can't use a chiropractor. So like,
But if you pick the pregnant mom, now I can go to the mom groups on Facebook and
Andrew Colsky (09:19)
Right? Right?
Joel Miller (09:20)
join. Now if you're gonna buy an ad just saying I do back work, right, that's for everyone again. But now I can say, are you pregnant? And you can market to people in that life stage where that's available in ad networks. So there's, or who we're about to be. So all of a sudden you actually have, I don't know, I always think of.
this like screenwriting thought exercise. Like if you could, someone says write a screenplay. It's like, well shoot, that could be anything. But if I go, you and I say write a 1920s film noir, right, you know, you instantly can start imagining a world and those borders make it easier to create something that people will be attracted to. So that's what happens when you define your audience.
Andrew Colsky (10:06)
Got it. Got it. Okay. So I like your example of the pregnant mom.
Joel Miller (10:12)
Yeah.
Andrew Colsky (10:13)
Because it's so easy to picture.
Joel Miller (10:16)
Right.
Andrew Colsky (10:17)
So you focus some information on your website about that. You say, you know, I am the contract, the chiropractor who focuses on, you know, pregnant moms. And
Joel Miller (10:30)
Right.
Andrew Colsky (10:32)
you get that out there and let's say
you get some clients and they really like the work you do and they're probably going to know other pregnant moms because they're probably hanging out in that community and they're going to give you,
Joel Miller (10:44)
Right, exactly.
Andrew Colsky (10:45)
you know, referrals word of mouth, which is always helpful, right? Is that,
is that like all I need is if I, if I, if I then just depend upon referrals, then I'm good, right?
Joel Miller (11:01)
I mean you could be and you may have to like take a break on what you want to do, know, depending on how successful it is at various points. But no, you're right. Eventually you're going to have to do some other things. But to me, like I start to get really focused on the fact that marketing is everything you do. It's not a singular task. And so what does that mean? Well, marketing to me is it's the how you present yourself to the world.
And yes, there's techniques and strategies and things that are part of that. But since it flows through to everything, I think you have to figure out, now I'm serving this audience. What promise am I making them? And do I thoroughly deliver on that? So like, if you're at the very beginning of the business, like we're talking about, that's where I want someone to focus on. It's not just about getting more people in the door. mean, you need the people first, but then honing as early as possible.
how you were actually following through on your promise. And so like when I think of the chiropractor, let's just keep going on this. It's like, all right, some things that can become a differentiator, and this might be different for everyone, I'm going to, I know what stage the pregnant mom was in when she came in. So she's at three months. I'm going to put check-ins based on everything I know that she needs, what's going on in her body.
at different points and have a system that automatically emails her and says, this is what's going on. You so like you're picking out how to serve your audience the best you can. And then maybe you start a program and you're like, well, in the, you can subscribe your family. So in the first year you get to come in and the infant, cause they do add pretty trick. I were practice to do some of that sometimes. Your,
Andrew Colsky (12:50)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Miller (12:50)
your baby also gets care for the first year with this package and you package that all together and you have check-ins, right? So like,
Figure out why you're passionate about your audience. Figure out a bigger promise that you're making to them and a story you're telling about why you're different and then follow through on it. And that's gonna make that referral engine just hum along. And then once you have that kind of rolling, I think that's a good time to start thinking about different techniques to get in front of more people. So maybe that's picking.
a new marketplace and having a different part of your website that talks to them. You know, it could be all kinds of things, sponsoring meetups. could be, you you could almost go endlessly with techniques. It's a matter at the, at where you are. But the number one
thing is if you can follow through on your differentiator, a lot of the business will start running itself as far as the marketing part.
Andrew Colsky (13:54)
So so I'm listening to all that and
Joel Miller (13:58)
Yeah.
Andrew Colsky (13:59)
I'm thinking to myself all right Yeah, that makes sense. And yeah, I understand why and sure it's a good idea to do that But Joel man, I'm gonna have to hire like ten people to start doing all this
Joel Miller (14:13)
Hahaha
Andrew Colsky (14:14)
stuff I don't have the money to hire this big old team Can I realistically do that? Like what can I really do?
Joel Miller (14:23)
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. mean, the only thing I can pull from here is my personal experience. And so the the sky floor, my identical leap day born twin brother and I's agency, it's just been the two of us for almost 18 years now. And we've grown almost every year that we've been in business by revenue. And I think our average client length, I just was looking this up, it's about five years and three months. Our longest running client is 11 years.
And of course we've got people all in that spectrum too. And we just do it with the two of us. And so I don't know, it's hard to like speak into any or everyone's situation, but I would say it's possible. And the way you do that is by getting specific, being able to like define what success looks like for you. So maybe for someone else, it is hiring new people.
in the chiropractic world, maybe you're gonna get chiropractors under you, you're gonna grow that way, or you'll open other offices and brand it out. That's totally fine. For us, it was like, no, I wanna stay small on purpose because that's how we serve our clients best. then we are, so that's the why we think that's how we serve our clients best. And then we use all kinds of tools and things to help us achieve that, right? So like, I think one...
kind of tipping point, I think for us, and it's so obvious, but is when I went from many, many, years ago from doing a manual invoicing and contracting process to using QuickBooks online. Like, yeah, basic stuff, right? But instead of, I cut out like 25 % of my work week of just meaningless stuff that I was doing by getting a tool that's not very expensive for how much time it saved me.
and how much tracking and visibility it gave me. So I think it's finding those kinds of things that work for you to help you be the most efficient you can be.
Andrew Colsky (16:27)
Wow. Well, you, without even realizing it, you just gave a great commercial for my product that I'm going to have to shamelessly talk about for a second here, which
Joel Miller (16:38)
Nice, do it, do it.
Andrew Colsky (16:40)
is called the credibility generator. And what the credibility generator is, is
it took what I was doing as I was marketing my own professional service practice and spending literally hours a day and
sometimes painful hours a day, creating videos and editing videos and writing blog articles and posting blogs and searching SEO terms and incorporating them, all these things. And it does it automatically. I created a process that did it automatically for me. Everything from writing it to posting it. And I was just playing with it today, this morning, because we're doing our beta testing and...
It was absolutely amazing to me that things that took me hours I literally
Joel Miller (17:28)
Yes.
Andrew Colsky (17:28)
did in a few minutes and I was done. So I don't want to get off the track, but there's a tool example.
Joel Miller (17:34)
No, no, but I love that. That's right. That's exactly
right. Yeah. Like finding those. And obviously, like we're in a moment with AI. I think it's going to be like probably confusing. Maybe a lot of the people who are listening, it's like, yeah, I've used it as sort of like a search engine or something. So finding maybe as the market matures and there are people who like you who are creating tools. I don't know if there's AI in yours or not, but like people who are making tools that. That.
Make it so it's not, again, write a movie script, right? It's that same kind of thing. Now, you
Andrew Colsky (18:08)
Right.
Joel Miller (18:09)
made a film noir. And so it does this one thing and it's helped, you solved your own problem. It's definitely gonna help some other people. So be on the lookout for those types of things though, multipliers. And it becomes a no-brainer if it's like, don't be afraid to invest in it. Invest in your business by strategically saying yes to those things where.
this thing, like now this is off my plate, yes it cost me some money and it feels like I could have kept that money but, but actually now I get to serve X amount of more clients and do the thing I really love.
Andrew Colsky (18:45)
Right, right. And it's it's You know because we're talking about chiropractors i'm going to guess that they probably have some sort of an electronic health record or something these days
Joel Miller (18:55)
Right, right.
Andrew Colsky (18:56)
And I know for myself in the from the mental health field when I moved from paper to an electronic health record Wow, did it save me time just and and
Joel Miller (19:08)
Yeah.
Andrew Colsky (19:09)
I never lost files. You never had a piece of paper that got you know misplaced or
folded up or crumpled. So, you know, we all incorporate tools into our practices all the time. so, you know, based on following up with what you're saying, it's not anything to be afraid of, it's something to embrace because it makes things easier.
Joel Miller (19:31)
Yeah, and you have to come, you have to do that transition period, right? Where you figure out, and sometimes that's a little bit more work for a minute, but if you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, I mean, when you're saying that, I'm immediately thinking of, of me, I'm in a lot of meetings. And, you know, there was a time where, not that long ago, where I had to sit there and write really studious notes through everything. And so then I'm not really paying attention all the way. I'm missing some important questions because I was too, I worried about getting everything down correctly.
And now I have meeting transcribers that run when I'm on meetings. And I know I can just focus, be present, ask great questions, get really good answers, and it's there for me. And I can parse it out. And all that, like that feeling of being able to do that always lived in my ethos. I don't know if that makes sense. Like I always, I'm good at synthesizing thoughts and holding onto them, but being unleashed to be able to know that it's just remembered for me.
like is actually improving that skill instead of atrophying it. Because now it's like, can dive into it later. And then I'm like, man, I'm getting my mind map of this client's needs is just much more rich than it used to be.
Andrew Colsky (20:45)
Mm-hmm. we've been talking about, you know, electronic tools and things that you
can use to make your life easier, and there's certainly a lot of them out there and new stuff coming out every day. But we're also talking about small professional service providers, which typically means
Joel Miller (21:03)
Yes.
Andrew Colsky (21:03)
that they're serving a community within a certain radius of where their office is. They're not looking to service the entire country, you know, on day one. So are there...
other things that they should be thinking about from a strategic positioning perspective that may not necessarily be online things.
Joel Miller (21:25)
Well, I mean, from a strategic positioning perspective, yes. And it gets kind of more into the esoteric, but I think if you can, and it's sort of based on, we could touch it loosely, but like, if you can figure out like how you're really helping people, I know it sounds just like the most generic thing ever, but like.
I guess, let's go to the service provider. think immediately of, we recently had some ground re-leveled outside of our house, right? And the person operates off of like a day rate or a half day rate. And so everything is, it's gonna, well, if I have to stay this much longer, it's this much more money. And so then I'm like in the mindset of thinking about how long is he here? Is it, is it?
Is it going to the next day? Is it a full day? When did he leave? I don't even know how he counts that. And so I'm sitting there worried about that thing because like it's positioned that way to me. Now, I think that he probably honestly could have charged me a thousand dollars more than he did and just said it's going to take me two days, but completely leave the Association of Time out of it. And I probably would just paid it right because what I'm really buying isn't that he
is here for a set amount of time with a certain machine pushing dirt for that amount of time. I'm buying the fact that I had an erosion problem that I needed solved. And if it's
Andrew Colsky (22:59)
Right.
Joel Miller (23:00)
solved, I'm feeling much, much more at ease in my house and I can have grass there now. if I have a lawn, the kids can play on it. So there's all these things that, and I get it, because he's not the kind of operator who thinks like that. And yet I think he left money on the table and
And even though I'm happy, he didn't help define what that happiness was gonna be for me. so to me, those are the levers that aren't digital. It's like a
Andrew Colsky (23:30)
Right.
Joel Miller (23:31)
very real thing, but it's a skill you have to develop.
Andrew Colsky (23:36)
Yeah, and you know, as you were saying that I'm thinking back to the chiropractor pregnant mom situation. And again, I don't know this to be true, but just for argument's sake, let's
Joel Miller (23:47)
Yeah. Yes.
Andrew Colsky (23:49)
say the reason that certain pregnant moms
look for a chiropractor is because they're having trouble sleeping at night because they're having back pain or whatever.
Joel Miller (24:00)
Yeah, right.
Andrew Colsky (24:01)
So based on what you're just saying,
The chiropractor is not selling chiropractic services to pregnant moms. What he's doing is he's selling them the ability to get a good night's rest without back pain.
Joel Miller (24:13)
Right, yep. And
once you unlock that, like, yeah, now you have some website marketing copy. And that's actually more compelling because you're focused on what the person who's reading it is going to walk away with. then if, even though like, if you spend time in like the LinkedIn world or the business advice world or these podcasts, it's great. Some of these things are the basics, but a lot of...
And yet you'll go onto the chiropractic websites or the excavating websites if they even have one. And you're just going to see, I do the thing that you think I do. Here's what I do. Very little why and then very, very, little who it's for specifically and what they're going to get out of it. What what success looks like, what changes in their life when they do their job well. So if you can, if you're like.
If listening and you can take some of that home and work on it for your business, that's a differentiator right there. I mean, you will, I guarantee you, carve out a bigger slice of your market if you can speak to those things in a confident way.
Andrew Colsky (25:21)
Yeah, and that's really the core of the message and the whole reason for this podcast and the whole reason that I call the podcast Be Picked because in order to build your business and grow your business and be the one who gets the business as opposed to your competitors, you need to be the one who is picked. And the way you become
Joel Miller (25:43)
Right?
Andrew Colsky (25:43)
picked is you understand what the client's pain point is and then you
you put out enough information material for them to understand that you understand their pain point and you have the ability to help them get past that pain point. you know, like you were saying, being out there and saying, I'm a chiropractor and I work with everybody who has a back. Well, okay. But the other one being, you know, here's my blog about, you know, the three best ways to avoid back pain at night for pregnant mothers.
how you can sleep better. Okay, well, so when the pregnant mother with back pain is up in the middle of the night with back pain, she gets on her phone and she starts searching, what do pregnant mothers do about back pain? And lo and behold, if you actually have paid attention to that as the chiropractor, you have a blog out there that talks about that very issue. What do you think she's gonna find? She's gonna find your article, and then she's gonna find your YouTube video, and then she's gonna find your website.
And you're continuously giving this message that I can help pregnant moms with back pain who can't sleep. Who's she gonna call?
Joel Miller (26:56)
Right, yeah, like to say,
yeah, yeah, exactly. You don't wanna just be considered, right? You wanna go from being just in the consideration to being the obvious choice in your marketplace. And
Andrew Colsky (27:08)
Break, break.
Joel Miller (27:09)
this is how you start to tip that towards in your favor so that when they look around, there's not just like, here's my big list of options. They come to your website, they see your...
the stories of people who've had success with you and they go, there's, I gotta start here at least because this is the best one. This matches what I want and what I need out of this.
Andrew Colsky (27:35)
Right, right. So let me ask about a different issue that's related to getting picked here. Typical scenario. Somebody, let's pick a lawyer this time. Lawyer puts up a website and at the time they put the website up five years ago, they had
the best technology because that's what the website designer told them. And let's say they do. They represent employees and employees.
And they watch over the last two years or so that their business has been declining and they don't do any real marketing. They don't engage in social media. They don't do blogs. They don't do YouTube videos. They have their website. They don't need to change that because they put it up five years ago. So obviously it's great. And
Joel Miller (28:41)
Yeah.
Andrew Colsky (28:41)
so they say well clearly I got to start lowering my price. Maybe I'm just too expensive.
And that's what's keeping people from coming to me. Talk to me about that
Joel Miller (28:53)
I mean do not discount I would say I mean that's if you have to to me the need to discount your your prices or lower your prices shows most likely that you haven't done a good enough job of defining your actual value of finding that audience and saying here's who I serve and here's the outcomes I provide because if you are nailing that typically
you can charge more. You don't have to attract people. You don't have to do less. And so I would say cut that out. Stop stop using that as a lever unless of course your business that is your promise. That is the differentiator. Maybe you're starting the legal firm that you're going to be the most affordable of anywhere around. you you find talented but junior lawyers who can serve fast and whatever you that could be a business model. But I think most of us are aiming for
a more premium.
offering so that we can make our efforts really valuable. And so, stop doing that because every discount you run or every time you do that, you're teaching your market, I think, that the real price is the friction and that your real price is fiction, And so you don't want to do that.
Andrew Colsky (30:22)
Right. And, you know, depending on how it's done, it can also kind of show desperation in a way, which then makes you less desirable. You know, people want what they can't get.
Joel Miller (30:28)
Well, right. Yep, exactly. man. Yeah.
Right. I had I was on a podcast pre-call and it was one of these it was a business coach and she's like, I just have to talk. have to talk to you like there's so much opportunity, you know, this whole thing. So can we do another call separate from the podcast? Yeah, I said fine. I'll listen. And she gives me her whole speech speech, her whole pitch.
which was really ironic because she said that she teaches heart led sales, heart based sales. It's all about the people. And then towards the end of the conversation proceeded to go into five high pressure tactics that I'm well familiar with because I've read the books anyway. But one of them was if you book on this call, I'll take 15 % off of my price. And I'm like, I didn't even.
You haven't given me enough time to even think this is worth it. And now you're going to take 15 % off? I immediately know it's not worth it. Your pricing is arbitrary, not because you think it's valuable.
Andrew Colsky (31:36)
Right.
Joel Miller (31:37)
And so, yeah, just, you don't want to be the person signaling that, right? You're worth it.
Andrew Colsky (31:44)
Yeah.
Joel Miller (31:44)
You're worth what you offer. Be worth it.
Andrew Colsky (31:47)
And I'm going to guess, because we've all experienced those types of sales pitches, I'm going to guess that
Joel Miller (31:55)
Yeah.
Andrew Colsky (31:56)
before she gave you the 50 % discount, she never even gave you an opportunity to buy it at full price. It's just right into the discount.
Joel Miller (32:01)
No, no,
I barely even objected. you know, it was just full steam ahead pitch. Lots of like little manipulation tactics throughout, which were at least for me, I could see right through them. And then the minute I was like, okay, interesting, and I'll discount it 15%. Okay, whoa,
Andrew Colsky (32:22)
Right.
Joel Miller (32:22)
whoa, whoa, whoa.
Andrew Colsky (32:26)
Well, clearly she didn't know what she was doing because I'm going to give you 20 % off.
Joel Miller (32:31)
Yeah, I know it's funny is that I mean this is probably a kind of a jerk move but but I'll do this for anybody if you want to come give me your pitch I analyzed her whole thing based on my years of sales experience and and my philosophy and I made a report sent it back to her it's basically like
Andrew Colsky (32:48)
Hahaha!
Joel Miller (32:50)
This is like I'm not actually interested and since you said you are all about human and heart-led sales Here's really how I think you missed that mark. I mean
I wouldn't recommend doing that to people. I just thought it was sort of a funny opportunity to say, look, this
Andrew Colsky (33:07)
Right.
Joel Miller (33:08)
is how I view the world, so I don't think this is a fit.
Andrew Colsky (33:11)
Yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, just just the whole point of when when when people are in a position where they feel desperate to get clients, they do things that they're
Joel Miller (33:23)
Yes.
Andrew Colsky (33:23)
doing out of desperation, but that shows the rest of the world that they're desperate, you know.
Joel Miller (33:28)
Yeah, can
kind of become a little bit of a spiral, Like you're actually not going to achieve the thing you want even if you get those clients because it's really interesting how this works. There's kind of like your point about pregnant moms, no other pregnant moms. Very true. And the same thing is kind of true about the types of clients you attract. And if you get the people who only maybe they're trying to discount you. So they're like, can you give me anything off? You start saying yes to those people.
They might be happy even at the end, guess who they know? More cheapskates who don't value what you do and want money off. And they're gonna know it happened. So like, you gotta be cautious there about the types of people you're bringing in because it usually begets more of those types of people.
Andrew Colsky (34:16)
Yeah, and that's an important point too, is that you don't want just leads, you want quality leads
Joel Miller (34:22)
Yes. Yep.
Andrew Colsky (34:23)
to do that work. moral of the story here though of the lawyer with a five-year-old website who's lowering his prices is,
Joel Miller (34:30)
Yes.
Andrew Colsky (34:33)
he's probably missing the mark on a five-year-old website is the equivalent of a hundred-year-old website. You
Joel Miller (34:39)
Yeah.
Andrew Colsky (34:40)
have to stay up to date, things are changing.
so fast today and you've got to stay
Joel Miller (34:45)
Right.
Andrew Colsky (34:45)
up with it. And the fact that he's doing no outreach, no blogs, no social media, no nothing, just sitting in the office waiting for the phone to ring, well, what do you expect? The
Joel Miller (34:57)
Right. Right.
Andrew Colsky (34:59)
phone's not going to ring if it's not ringing. And sitting there longer or sitting there harder or sitting there more intent is not going to make the phone ring. You have to get
Joel Miller (35:06)
Yeah,
Andrew Colsky (35:07)
up and do something.
Joel Miller (35:08)
I mean, it's crazy. I often think we've all seen this maybe in a in your town or neighborhood. There's the house that ends up abandoned and it doesn't take long for it to start looking like it's just completely falling apart. Right. Like and it's funny because you think about living in your house and you do a little things here and there to keep it up. But you're not doing all the things that stop that just degeneration from happening. And I honestly think.
Like I don't know what the law of physics on that year, but there's something there to like when we act in the world, it makes a difference even if it's not direct sometimes. And so I've noticed in my life that in my business that sometimes when I come up with a new idea that could never even result in direct leads that more come in anyway. So I think like to me that's the website too. When even if there's not some big fanfare release when you update it.
and you keep it up to date, that's just a signal to the world in these sometimes ethereal ways that you care, that you're taking care of the house, therefore it's not falling apart.
Andrew Colsky (36:17)
Right. Well, we are over time, but I wanted to make sure we got all this good information in. So, Joel, if people wanted to get in touch with you, how do they do it?
Joel Miller (36:30)
They go to theskyfloor.com and there we have a blog. You can see other appearances and there's a subscribe box on most pages and a start now page if you wanted to have a conversation. I'm not even joking. If you listened and you got to the part about the sales pitch evaluation, I'll listen to your pitch and evaluate it. I love that stuff. And let's have a conversation.
Andrew Colsky (36:53)
Great, great. Well, I encourage you all to take advantage of that offer because it can't hurt. The only thing that can happen is you can get some good information that's helpful. So with that, I'll remind you the other good information you can get that's helpful would be the free assessment on my website at bpicked.com. It takes answers to 15 quick questions. You just click A, B, C, or D for each one and you get a report at the end.
That can be helpful to you as well. Again, no cost for that. And you can find all of the other podcast episodes as well as information about my book, Left of Trust and the credibility generator all at www.bpict.com. And Joel, I'll give you the last word.
Joel Miller (37:45)
I mean, I would say this, if you're sitting in this audience and you want to start something and you've been sitting on the fence going, have to have all these things in the right place, we've given you just enough today where you can start now and do it. It's not going to get any easier any other day. So take an action today.
Andrew Colsky (38:03)
Fantastic. Well, thank you. And don't forget to take Joel up on his offer. I'd love to hear some stories back after you do. Joel, thank you for your time and we'll see all of you on the next episode of Be-Picked